In each division, who stands alone?

[teeto]

So, this is the thread-

Step 1- give your top 10 list of any division's history, this is in a greatness sense.

Step 2- then say who you think stands alone as the best h2h out of your list. Note, for a guy to stand alone, he you must favour him over the whole of your list in a h2h fantasy match-up. It doesnt have to be your number 1 guy in the ATG list, for example, i have Whitaker at number 4 at 135, but i have him and Duran 'standing alone' in a h2h sense, and yes, you can have more than 1 guy standing alone if you wish. And you can have levels of 'standing alone' if you wish also. Say like, fighter A, may stand alone in your opinion, but fighter B may actually stand apart from the rest below him and fighter A, just that you dont favour him over the top dog.

Hope ive made it clear and easy to understand!

Just for fun.

I'll get things started with a heavyweight one, just my opinion, and an example to get things started.

My top ten list-

1. Ali (this is a recent change for me, i previously had Louis, but i believe Ali is number 1)
2. Louis
3. Johnson
4. Marciano
5. Holmes
6. Tyson
7. Lewis (most may not agree, not sure if entirely do anymore, its under revision!)
8. Dempsey
9. Foreman
10. Liston

Imo, Ali stands alone in a h2h sense, as you can see, i have him number 1 all-time also. For me, heavyweight is a difficult one to pick if someone stands alone on a leve below Ali, but maybe Tyson? Then again, he could be joined by Holmes, Johnson or Louis? I'll just leave it as Ali alone by himself at the moment.

PS- like i say, you might not think that a single fighter stands alone h2h in any division's history, but if you guys have any insights into why you think someone might, then please give them.

Also, i do actually sort of have my light-heavy, welter and lightweight lists ready! But i'll let you guys give some insights first, or i'd be spoiling the thread.

GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[teeto]

Come on guys, i'll give another then-

My welterweight list-

1. Robinson
2. Armstrong
3. Leonard
4. Napoles
5. Gavilan
6. Trinidad (dont jump at this please! I think he was prolific at the weight, and its just a personal fave, the best of his era imo)
7. Griffith
8. Walker
9. Ross
10. Basilio

When i look at my list, i think i really need to reconsider Trinidad for Walcott.

But anyway, for me Robinson stands alone in a h2h sense above the rest, i would actually pick him over everyone else, and Leonard would stand apart from the others imo, i would slightly favour him over an 'on his best night' Gavilan. Charley Burley is also one pf the finest h2h guys at welter ever.

[Sweet Pea]

Bascially you're asking for the best H2H fighter in a complicated way. << That emoticon is far too joyous.

I'd agree with what you said on LW, though I'm not positive what my rankings would be.

If this is based on H2H more than anything(so I'll be leaving out the likes of Barbados Joe Walcott), I'll throw down my WW list:

1. Ray Robinson
2. Ray Leonard
3. Tommy Hearns
4. Kid Gavilan
5. Jose Napoles
6. Emile Griffith
7. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
8. Carmen Basilio
9. Roberto Duran
10. Charley Burley

The thing is there are so many fighters that qualify in head to head terms but didn't prove enough or didn't have a solid enough career to qualify overall, like Curry.

From the list above, honestly, is there a single fighter you could choose as head and shoulders above the rest? I guess I'd have to take consensus choices of Robinson and Leonard.

[Sweet Pea]

Walker's one I may have left out, if you can find room for him in that list.

[teeto]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Bascially you're asking for the best H2H fighter in a complicated way. << That emoticon is far too joyous.

I'd agree with what you said on LW, though I'm not positive what my rankings would be.

If this is based on H2H more than anything(so I'll be leaving out the likes of Barbados Joe Walcott), I'll throw down my WW list:

1. Ray Robinson
2. Ray Leonard
3. Tommy Hearns
4. Kid Gavilan
5. Jose Napoles
6. Emile Griffith
7. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
8. Carmen Basilio
9. Roberto Duran
10. Pernell Whitaker

I kind of half-assed it at the end with Whitaker, not sure. The thing is there are so many fighters that qualify in head to head terms but didn't prove enough or didn't have a solid enough career to qualify overall, like Curry.

From the list above, honestly, is there a single fighter you could choose as head and shoulders above the rest? I guess I'd have to take consensus choices of Robinson and Leonard.

I know you really are on the fence between Leonard and Robinson h2h.

What i mean is this Pea, give me your top 10 guys in a greatness sense, and then tell me who is your pick(s) for best h2h of THAT list.

Yes it is complicated, sorry!!

[teeto]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Walker's one I may have left out, if you can find room for him in that list.

In a h2h sense? I dont know, you'd have to rank him h2h on him simply being a force of nature, which he was.

EDIT- Shit, i thought u meant Walcott!!

[Sweet Pea]

1. Ray Robinson
2. Barbados Joe Walcott
3. Ray Leonard
4. Kid Gavilan
5. Jose Napoles
6. Emile Griffith
7. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
8. Carmen Basilio
9. Charley Burley
10. Mickey Walker

That'd probably be my greatest list based solely on work at WW. Something like that anyway. Maybe some names switched around.

[teeto]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

1. Ray Robinson
2. Barbados Joe Walcott
3. Ray Leonard
4. Kid Gavilan
5. Jose Napoles
6. Emile Griffith
7. Luis Manuel Rodriguez
8. Carmen Basilio
9. Charley Burley
10. Mickey Walker

That'd probably be my greatest list based solely on work at WW. Something like that anyway. Maybe some names switched around.

So of them elites, does any one guy stand alone if you pitted them against each other h2h? There's only one possibility for me, just my opinion.

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by teeto

So of them elites, does any one guy stand alone if you pitted them against each other h2h? There's only one possibility for me, just my opinion.

Everyone on that list is capable of losing to others on the list, but it's between Robinson and Leonard in terms of which guys would do the best.

[teeto]

You're right Pea, just that if every one of them has their 'best night', i would most likely pick Robinson over them all, it is just my opinion, but i do feel strongly about that i would like to add. Yeah though, if any1s coming close to doing it with Robinson, it would be Leonard, i would just still pick SRR though.

[acb_]

Do you guys fancy Leonard over Robinson?

[teeto]

Originally Posted by acb_

Do you guys fancy Leonard over Robinson?

I dont personally, but Pea's on the fence, i can understand it though.

[Sweet Pea]

Leonard/Robinson is 50/50 as far as I can tell.

The guy I'd really love to see more footage of is Rodriguez. Raging B(_)LL thinks exceedingly highly of him.

[acb_]

Originally Posted by teeto

I dont personally, but Pea's on the fence, i can understand it though.

Generally I go with the flow with SRR being the man h2h at ´47. I can say this though, I have a few minutes of him against Docusen at that weight, and film is grainy. Docusen is giving him all that he can handle though. I dont have a context at all for it... what round, what type of fight, if SRR was on or off his game... nothing. I do know that RagingBull has the full fight.

My feeling is that if Docusen can run him like that, then SRL can also have success.

[teeto]

I really need to see Rodriguez, badly.