Paul Williams takes Mijares spot in top 10 p4p.

[Brooklyn1550]

I actually rewatched Cotto/Margarito tonight, thanks to Smooch who sent me the fight on DVD. Cotto was winning rounds, but after the 2nd round, you could tell he was getting broken down. He was boxing well, landing clean shots repeatedly on Margarito's head, but at the same time, sitting on the ropes, getting hit with quite a few body shots. After round 7, it looked like it was only a matter of time as he was badly hurt with a series of uppercuts and constantly on the retreat. Margarito just didn't have any respect for him.

[Benny Blanco]

Originally Posted by brooklyn1550

I actually rewatched Cotto/Margarito tonight, thanks to Smooch who sent me the fight on DVD. Cotto was winning rounds, but after the 2nd round, you could tell he was getting broken down. He was boxing well, landing clean shots repeatedly on Margarito's head, but at the same time, sitting on the ropes, getting hit with quite a few body shots. After round 7, it looked like it was only a matter of time as he was badly hurt with a series of uppercuts and constantly on the retreat. Margarito just didn't have any respect for him.

Did smooch send you the whole career set?

[Sir Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by BENNY BLANCO

Amsterdam you can't possibly believe with all things considered that Mijares is better than Cotto.

I'm not sure on that. But he's superior over Cotto at boxing by a huge amount, which is what Cotto did vs. Margarito to some success, then a failure as it went on.

I take resume/performance and the overall ability of the fighter into perspective when ranking P4P. Margarito ranked top 10 is fine, but being so highly ranked just for having a style advantage over Cotto, despite several piss horrible performances prior. If there is anybody current P4P fighter prepped for an embarassing loss next, it's Margarito, I'll end it on that note.

[Brooklyn1550]

Originally Posted by BENNY BLANCO

Did smooch send you the whole career set?

No, Cotto-Margarito is the only Cotto fight, aside from a few early ones, that I didn't have on DVD. So I would have been wasting his time asking him to copy Cotto's entire career. He did hook me up with a 4-disc Monzon set and a 2-disc Gamboa set.

[kg0208]

Originally Posted by Sir Amsterdam

He was still ridiculously outboxed for over half of the fight, that's a penalization of the performance, not the style, no matter how you twist it.

Now let's go back what I did initially say, that Margarito in the top 10 was fine, but not as high as 6, more like 8-10, with Cotto removed. Do you have a problem with that?

And my current stance on Darchinyan is that he should be from 8-10 also, where Mijares was.

I never said it was absurd to place Marg top 10, just as high as 5 or 6.

Now, it is totally absurd to place Calderon in the top 10, definitely, if looking at things objectively in comparison to other fighters that are also in contention, but I can live with him being top 15.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. Outboxing a fighter who is coming forward and doing tons of damage which directly effected the outcome of the fight means very little. Margo was impressive.

And I am talking about your original assertion directly after the fight. Not now. You have softened on Margo a bit since the fight.

As for Calderon? He is a top 10 fighter IMO. I see an entirely different fighter than you do. I also don't see the great competition you refer to in the SMW division, but you rate Kessler highly. That is subjective as well. I have no issues with your list because you are using your criteria. I was only taking issue with you wanting Darchinyan in Ring's top 10 for beating a top 10 fighter, but not wanting Margo in for doing the same thing.

[kg0208]

Originally Posted by brooklyn1550

I actually rewatched Cotto/Margarito tonight, thanks to Smooch who sent me the fight on DVD. Cotto was winning rounds, but after the 2nd round, you could tell he was getting broken down. He was boxing well, landing clean shots repeatedly on Margarito's head, but at the same time, sitting on the ropes, getting hit with quite a few body shots. After round 7, it looked like it was only a matter of time as he was badly hurt with a series of uppercuts and constantly on the retreat. Margarito just didn't have any respect for him.

Which makes you wonder how hard Williams actually punches. Because I swear a couple of times he got Margarito's attention real good.

[Sir Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by kg0208

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. Outboxing a fighter who is coming forward and doing tons of damage which directly effected the outcome of the fight means very little. Margo was impressive.

And I am talking about your original assertion directly after the fight. Not now. You have softened on Margo a bit since the fight.

As for Calderon? He is a top 10 fighter IMO. I see an entirely different fighter than you do. I also don't see the great competition you refer to in the SMW division, but you rate Kessler highly. That is subjective as well. I have no issues with your list because you are using your criteria. I was only taking issue with you wanting Darchinyan in Ring's top 10 for beating a top 10 fighter, but not wanting Margo in for doing the same thing.

I said directly after the fight that I don't personally rate Marg top 10, but that I had no problem with it so long as it was reasonable and not #5 or 6 like most were doing.

That's exactly what I asserted. Which is not biased at all.

Right now, since the changes in the climate, I do have have him at #9, but not at a stable point, neither is Darchinyan for that matter, but he's been more impressive to me than Marg.

Kessler was competitive with the #2 and has dominated better fighters than Calderon even has available to face. SMW is somewhat weak, but not nearly as weak as Calderon's weight range, which is the poorest in all of boxing.

[acb_]

Originally Posted by kg0208

Which makes you wonder how hard Williams actually punches. Because I swear a couple of times he got Margarito's attention real good.

I think the downward angle that the punches come in on have an effect on the equilibrium sometimes... but that doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't have more power than we think though.

[Brooklyn1550]

Originally Posted by kg0208

Which makes you wonder how hard Williams actually punches. Because I swear a couple of times he got Margarito's attention real good.

Yup, I thought he stunned him on a couple occassions too. Clottey stunned Margarito once with a counter right hand that Margarito walked into, and Santos had him visibly wobbled in the first round.

When Williams sits down on his punches, throws with correct technique, getting his body into the shots, he's a very dangerous man. I can't see anybody at welterweight beating him.

[smoochp]

Originally Posted by brooklyn1550

No, Cotto-Margarito is the only Cotto fight, aside from a few early ones, that I didn't have on DVD. So I would have been wasting his time asking him to copy Cotto's entire career. He did hook me up with a 4-disc Monzon set and a 2-disc Gamboa set.

It wasn't three disc Gamboa let me know so I can ship out. Also you got Legendary Nights complete set, and all the others you wanted plus your favorites fights

[Brooklyn1550]

Originally Posted by smoochp

It wasn't three disc Gamboa let me know so I can ship out. Also you got Legendary Nights complete set, and all the others you wanted plus your favorites fights

My bad, I just checked and there are three Gamboa discs. Love the Legendary Nights addition. Do you remember HBO saying they were going to release a couple more this year? So much for that, I was really looking forward to a Barrera-Morales legendary night documentary.

[Benny Blanco]

Originally Posted by Sir Amsterdam

I'm not sure on that. But he's superior over Cotto at boxing by a huge amount, which is what Cotto did vs. Margarito to some success, then a failure as it went on.

I take resume/performance and the overall ability of the fighter into perspective when ranking P4P. Margarito ranked top 10 is fine, but being so highly ranked just for having a style advantage over Cotto, despite several piss horrible performances prior. If there is anybody current P4P fighter prepped for an embarassing loss next, it's Margarito, I'll end it on that note.

Margarito beat Cotto and made him quit in the 11th round, whether it's due to a style adavantage or not is massively impressive and what are these horrible performances you speak of regarding Margarito?...Say what you wan't about Margarito but even in defeat he has never been dominated to any degree,he fought Santos who weighed in at 170 pounds on fight night and had the fight close with him and he narrowly lost to Paul Williams who is 6'3 freak show. So I don't see how you can say he performed horrible and if you are speaking of his performance versus Clottey, the one thing I will say to you is that fighting very good or great competition in any sport especially boxing is a "trade off" meaning that the better your comp the less better you will look and that's exactly the case with Margo he might have not look so good on certain occasions but it's because he has fought the best that is out there.

And to make one more point regarding a Cotto/Mijares comparison yes I know how old and cliche the h2h/p4p argument is but Cotto would not lose every round to a opponent like Vic Darchinyan and hell Cotto might even win that p4p bout.

[smoochp]

Originally Posted by brooklyn1550

My bad, I just checked and there are three Gamboa discs. Love the Legendary Nights addition. Do you remember HBO saying they were going to release a couple more this year? So much for that, I was really looking forward to a Barrera-Morales legendary night documentary.

Next time you want something else I have all the beyond the glory and coutdowns including Vargas vs Mayorga that was on showtime

[kg0208]

This is all too serious for me.

I think I'm gonna go post our first "Hot Nude Chicks" thread in the open forum

[Sir Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by BENNY BLANCO

Margarito beat Cotto and made him quit in the 11th round, whether it's due to a style adavantage or not is massively impressive and what are these horrible performances you speak of regarding Margarito?...Say what you wan't about Margarito but even in defeat he has never been dominated to any degree,he fought Santos who weighed in at 170 pounds on fight night and had the fight close with him and he narrowly lost to Paul Williams who is 6'3 freak show. So I don't see how you can say he performed horrible and if you are speaking of his performance versus Clottey, the one thing I will say to you is that fighting very good or great competition in any sport especially boxing is a "trade off" meaning that the better your comp the less better you will look and that's exactly the case with Margo he might have not look so good on certain occasions but it's because he has fought the best that is out there.

And to make one more point regarding a Cotto/Mijares comparison yes I know how old and cliche the h2h/p4p argument is but Cotto would not lose every round to a opponent like Vic Darchinyan and hell Cotto might even win that p4p bout.

I agree with you on Marg's comp and take that into consideration, I may review that and reconsider some of my stances on him.

Now, if you want to believe that if Vic and Cotto were the same size that Darchinyan wouldn't be nasty for him stylistically, with that power, speed and timing and unpredictability, I'd think it over. I think one of those uppercuts would put him out. If you can break the defence of a defensively brilliant fighter like Mijares and then KO him, despite the fact that he had a proven GOOD chin, unlike Cotto's average chin, then I'd think that somebody exactly like Vic at Welter would be terrible... especially considering that Vic eats pressure fighters alive.