Smoochp's DVD pick of the week

[smoochp]

Sugar Ray Leonard vs Marvin Hagler?

There was years of hype for this one. Ray was labeled the the Golden Boy as was Hagler being labeled the blue collar worker. What great fight it was including the buildup. Some say it was a robbery and some like me thought Ray pulled it off. One of the judges cards was too high, but we know that B.S. But Ray coming off a 5 year layoff had the crowd on his side. Hagler seemed a little nervours in in the first couple rounds

Questions?

Do you think 15 rounds would have benifited Hagler?
Why didnt Hagler fight southpaw in the fist couple rounds?
Who do you think really won?
Was it a close fight to anyone here?
Without this fight how would Leonard's career look?

[acb_]

Completely insane-- I was going to make a thread that posed 3 questions about this fight just yesterday.

Ok if I add em to your list Smooch?

[smoochp]

Originally Posted by acb_

Completely insane-- I was going to make a thread that posed 3 questions about this fight just yesterday.

Ok if I add em to your list Smooch?

Yeah man do so This was a great fight

[acb_]

Originally Posted by smoochp

Sugar Ray Leonard vs Marvin Hagler?

There was years of hype for this one. Ray was labeled the the Golden Boy as was Hagler being labeled the blue collar worker. What great fight it was including the buildup. Some say it was a robbery and some like me thought Ray pulled it off. One of the judges cards was too high, but we know that B.S. But Ray coming off a 5 year layoff had the crowd on his side. Hagler seemed a little nervours in in the first couple rounds

Questions?

Do you think 15 rounds would have benifited Hagler?
Why didnt Hagler fight southpaw in the fist couple rounds?
Who do you think really won?
Was it a close fight to anyone here?
Without this fight how would Leonard's career look?

1. 15 rounds would have benefited Hagler, and Leonard knew it. Thats why he requested 12 instead.

2. Hagler didn't go southpaw because he wanted to prove a point. He felt he was a level above Leonard after the layoff and thought he could beat him easily. It was a measure of mental warfare that had went a completely different way than intended.

3. Sugar Ray Leonard. I'm suprised at the amount of people having Hagler win. I have it 7-5 Leonard. A draw is acceptable, but I'd like to know which rounds people have Hagler winning. Leonard was landing hard shots throughout, its one of the great myths of boxing that he was throwing pitter-patter in there.

4. Yes, close.

5. It was a master class performance of immeasurable proportions IMO. It was what Bernard did to Pavlik, but from a man fighting arguably the greatest 160lb fighter ever, on a ridiculous layoff, and with no tune up fight. Masterful.

[Peter5]

3. Those pitter-patter shots were indeed combos of high intensity, volume and power, not JC type pitter patters They had bad intentions behind them, you could see that by SRL facial expressions when throwing, he was attempting to hurt the bald mofo not just land flashy shots

[acb_]

Ok, here were my 3 questions for the fray:

1. This is always the first question I ask myself after any big fight-- What did we know coming out about these two boxers that we didn't know going in?

2. Did Marvin Hagler's demons resurface for this fight? Specifically, I have always questioned sports writers and analysts who write off an athlete's demons just because they win the big one, or for example, become champions. Hagler, much like Pryor, came into his career with a lot of baggage-- he wasn't loved enough, didn't get the recognition he deserved, etc. Now the common line of reasoning is that his run as a middle weight champion helped him purge these feelings. I'm not sure, I watched the footage yesterday and everything from the start of the fight in the southpaw position to his exchanges between his corner indicated that Ray had infiltrated his head. So, did Marvin Hagler ever really fully exercise his demons, or did they revisit him one last time in the form of Ray Leonard?

3. Had Ray Leonard ever showed the the ability to fight like a matador like he did against Hagler previously? The way he turned Hagler so many times and made Hagler miss widely on many occasions (Gil Clancy repeatedly complains that Hagler looks slow and is missing by distances) was just genius. But was it something he displayed to that degree before? Or was it just another fold in his game that makes him the legendary boxer his is?



Thanks!

[smoochp]

Originally Posted by acb_

Ok, here were my 3 questions for the fray:

1. This is always the first question I ask myself after any big fight-- What did we know coming out about these two boxers that we didn't know going in?

2. Did Marvin Hagler's demons resurface for this fight? Specifically, I have always questioned sports writers and analysts who write off an athlete's demons just because they win the big one, or for example, become champions. Hagler, much like Pryor, came into his career with a lot of baggage-- he wasn't loved enough, didn't get the recognition he deserved, etc. Now the common line of reasoning is that his run as a middle weight champion helped him purge these feelings. I'm not sure, I watched the footage yesterday and everything from the start of the fight in the southpaw position to his exchanges between his corner indicated that Ray had infiltrated his head. So, did Marvin Hagler ever really fully exercise his demons, or did they revisit him one last time in the form of Ray Leonard?

3. Had Ray Leonard ever showed the the ability to fight like a matador like he did against Hagler previously? The way he turned Hagler so many times and made Hagler miss widely on many occasions (Gil Clancy repeatedly complains that Hagler looks slow and is missing by distances) was just genius. But was it something he displayed to that degree before? Or was it just another fold in his game that makes him the legendary boxer his is?



Thanks!

1. What we knew coming in was that Hagler might not have been the same fighter, becasue from the brawl with Mugabi. It could have done some damage to his health. We also thought Ray would look sluggish, becasue 5 years was a long layoff.

After the fight we found out Ray still had it, but he was a smater fighter. He didnt trade toe to toe, but when he seen openings he took advantage of them. So I think he relied more on his skills than athletic ability. Hagler just wasnt the same fighter imo. He seemed very confused the first couple of rounds

2. Hagler seemed like it was all a dream to him. He been waiting for along time for such a fight, but didnt know what to do. I guess since all eyes wear on him.

3. I think he didnt the Matador vs Bull thing in the second Duran fight.

[acb_]

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

[Illmatic]

Originally Posted by acb_

3. Sugar Ray Leonard. I'm suprised at the amount of people having Hagler win. I have it 7-5 Leonard. A draw is acceptable, but I'd like to know which rounds people have Hagler winning. Leonard was landing hard shots throughout, its one of the great myths of boxing that he was throwing pitter-patter in there.
.

COMPLETELY f'n agree. One of the great myths of boxing.

[Illmatic]

Originally Posted by acb_

Ok, here were my 3 questions for the fray:

1. This is always the first question I ask myself after any big fight-- What did we know coming out about these two boxers that we didn't know going in?

That SRL was one of the most intelligent fighters ever.

2. Did Marvin Hagler's demons resurface for this fight? Specifically, I have always questioned sports writers and analysts who write off an athlete's demons just because they win the big one, or for example, become champions. Hagler, much like Pryor, came into his career with a lot of baggage-- he wasn't loved enough, didn't get the recognition he deserved, etc. Now the common line of reasoning is that his run as a middle weight champion helped him purge these feelings. I'm not sure, I watched the footage yesterday and everything from the start of the fight in the southpaw position to his exchanges between his corner indicated that Ray had infiltrated his head. So, did Marvin Hagler ever really fully exercise his demons, or did they revisit him one last time in the form of Ray Leonard?

I think Hagler outthought himself.

3. Had Ray Leonard ever showed the the ability to fight like a matador like he did against Hagler previously? The way he turned Hagler so many times and made Hagler miss widely on many occasions (Gil Clancy repeatedly complains that Hagler looks slow and is missing by distances) was just genius. But was it something he displayed to that degree before? Or was it just another fold in his game that makes him the legendary boxer his is?

I think he never completely showed it b/c he didnt have to. He did in spots against Hearns, but turned brawler. Against Benitez, he had to be smart and tactical, fighting tit for tat and display patience. In Duran I, he was puncher-boxer, and in the second, you might make the case he was like a matador, but Duran quitting overshadows that. Id say it was just another fold in his game that made him legendary.

Oh...and people who say Hagler was robbed are just bitter Hagler fans.



Thanks![/quote]

[salsanchezfan]

Originally Posted by smoochp

Sugar Ray Leonard vs Marvin Hagler?

There was years of hype for this one. Ray was labeled the the Golden Boy as was Hagler being labeled the blue collar worker. What great fight it was including the buildup. Some say it was a robbery and some like me thought Ray pulled it off. One of the judges cards was too high, but we know that B.S. But Ray coming off a 5 year layoff had the crowd on his side. Hagler seemed a little nervours in in the first couple rounds

Questions?

Do you think 15 rounds would have benifited Hagler?
Why didnt Hagler fight southpaw in the fist couple rounds?
Who do you think really won?
Was it a close fight to anyone here?
Without this fight how would Leonard's career look?

I think 15 rounds would most likely have meant Hagler would have squeaked it out.

I think he was trying to throw Ray off, and get in the head of the guy who was very good at getting in other fighter's heads......in effect, it was proof that Leonard did a psyche job on Hagler I think.

I had it 6-5-1 for Leonard, which pained me greatly, being a huge Hagler fan.

Without this fight, Leonard's legend wouldn't be as big, no doubt. Three years off, taking on the monster that was Hagler (albeit a bit of a faded one).

[smoochp]

This was a great fight and if nobody has seen it, trust me you should check it out