When Ali went to jail what other fighters could he had fought

[smoochp]

I don't know if this in the right forum. Did those waste some of his prime years? Could the legend be bigger than what it is?

[McGrain]

There are probably no names that he missed out on, to be honest. He fought Foster, Quarry, Mathis, Ellis, Bonaneva, Quarry probably everyone that he would have taken on during the exile, when he came back. The thing is, he lost peak years - possibly his best years. Ali's best boxing performances all happened right before he was banned - Terrell and Williams most notably. When he came back, he was not quite the same.

The big question is - would Ali have lost to Frazier in 69/70 if Ali hadn't had the lay off? I think he would have but it would have been close, damn close. Whether or not Ali is greater or not depends upon how he goes with Frazier the first time.

Not a big difference IMO.

[smoochp]

Thanks my man for the response

[salsanchezfan]

Well he was only really incarcerated for about a week. Bad enough, I guess.


As to the three years he was off, I don't know that he really missed that much, though we did probably miss his best athletic years.

There was always Chuvalo, but he'd already beaten him. Shame, I suppose, that he missed out on a prime Buster Mathis.

He might have gotten to Frazier a bit earlier, which would have meant a better conditioned, better prepared Ali when they met. The Ali-Frazier legend would have lost some of its luster then, I think. I believe Ali would have won, had they met 1969-70, had he remained active. This would have negated much of the public desire to see a second fight.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by salsanchezfan

He might have gotten to Frazier a bit earlier, which would have meant a better conditioned, better prepared Ali when they met. The Ali-Frazier legend would have lost some of its luster then, I think. I believe Ali would have won, had they met 1969-70, had he remained active. This would have negated much of the public desire to see a second fight.

I think thtat this is the nail on the head, yeah. Frazier would have been pushed in against Ali with the Nation of Islam thing raging. If Ali beats Frazier it possibly relegates him to #2 on the HW lists! Freakishly enough.

But I think Ali losses to a peak Joe. I think he's the right man. But Ali will always win the next two, because he ruins Frazier the first time they meet, no matter which versions.

As well as being the right man, Joe was the wrong man.

[salsanchezfan]

I honestly don't believe Frazier beats him the first time had they met sometime before without Ali's thrusting himself into the crossover limelight the way he did with his social/political stances.

It was this angle that the press used to caste both Ali and Frazier into their respective roles; Ali relished his, Frazier of course seemed uncomfortable and ill-placed in his. This resentment I think, at least half formed not by Ali but by the machine that was built around the two by outside forces, was what drove Frazier to show the drive and indominable will he showed in March '71. It was a fight that showed will and emotion were as much a weapon as gym-learned skills. Without that hatred in his heart that night, Frazier doesn't fight as well. Without the division between the fighters spurred on by the socio/political bent surrounding the first fight, there is no hatred.

[McGrain]

Interesting, but I don't agree with you that Joe needs that hatred. He has that same intensity for Foster, for example. Additionally, the kind of motivator your talking about, in my opinion, isn't an issue for most fighters when they are on top - and Joe was on top in the FOTC. There might be something to it as regards what got Joe through the last two rounds in Manilla, though.