A Conversation About Mayweathers Career

[acb_]

Now that we can do this without the trolls, money figures, dates, etc... it would be nice to talk about Mayweathers career and our general impressions of it. I think he is really retired-- unlike a lot of posters-- and dont see him coming back.

I found his lack of desire to take on the best at the end of his career to be his biggest downfall as a boxer and representative as the p4p number 1. All numbers and dates aside, he just didnt have a burning desire to fight the best at 147lbs, and if he did it would have been an incredible ride given all the talent at the weight. I feel that if he would have taken even two of the group (Cotto, Margo, Williams, Mosley. etc) that the division would have really opened up and others may have been required to match his openess to big challenges in order to make a name for themselves and stay in the mix. This competitiveness always rubs off in sports, as does lack thereof. When Mayweather resorted to posturing and degrading boxers outside of the ring rather than just beating them inside of it its slowed the fray at the weight.

As a whole, his career provided several amazing nights. His fights with Corrales, Chavez, Judah, Hatton, and even Ndou were very entertaining. His idea for 24-7 was a great one and it will help promote boxing in the future. He is currently a little underated in the H2H sense against boxers of past eras and his abilities would have given anyone from 130lbs to 135lbs a deep run.

Anyways, not that we havent discussed this before, but its the train that always runs off the tracks. Everyone here has the maturity to give an honest opinion and not resort to b.s., so I thought it was worth opening the door to discuss this again, given this is the current eras best.

[cardstars]

This is a great idea for conversation IN THIS FORUM.

I was one of the people thinking that Mayweather wasn't retired. I was initially thinking that he was waiting for Cotto to build a name and then eventually a megafight within the next year or so. Now that Cotto lost to Margo I think he is officially retired though. I don't see Mayweather coming out of retirement to face Margo (and I think Margo will lose his titles before he makes a huge name for himself). No offense to Margo or his fans intended; just stating my opinion.

As for Mayweathers career I also feel it is really too bad that he didn't face the best (or anywhere near it) at welter. My personal opinion is that he is the type of guy that would be devasted from a loss on his record. Don't get me wrong; he's an amazing boxer, but I think he has other issues where he may mentally break down if he loses in the ring since boxing was his entire life and all he knew. He also says himself that he doesn't "want boxing to retire him", so he didn't want tough blood and guts battles with guys like Margo, Mosley, Cotto, etc. I give him all the props in the world for his great performance against Hatton, but in my opinion that was a much less dangerous fight then others out there at the time

I guess my problem with Mayweather is that when tracking his career I believe that you can see a pattern involved; the path of least resistance to get to the top. I will also admit that as a hardcore boxing fan I want to SEE a p4p #1 guy taking on all the challenges out there, not just a sparring match with the biggest name in the game who is past it himself.

I cannot argue that Mayweather is one of the greatest out there at 130-135 (actually I only favor Arguello over him at 130), but because of his antics once he reached the top and moved up I guess I just have a "we will never know attitude", which tto me translates to he didnt want the challenge. If his heart was truly not in it anymore then im glad he retired, but lets not label him as the best out there in a stacked welterweight division when he hasn't prroved anything. And I hate it when people bring him up with all time greats at welter....

I hope I at least somewhat got my feelings on him across. Its really mixed for me, but he mostly annoys me

[kg0208]

Mayweather is an ATG. Probably when things settle, he will move into people's top 60 fighters or so with ease. (10 years or so from now) This is a common phenomena as we saw how Whitaker took his rightful place in the top 20 years later and Jones Jr has taken his place in the top 30 or so years after his prime.

Mayweather's resume is good. It's not great, but it's underrated due to the backlash of his fans overrating it. He beat a lot of champs, he was beautiful in the ring, and he clearly beat every fighter he ever faced outside of Castillo I, though he was not thoroughly dominant in each fight.

All in all, taking into account what he DID do, and not what he didn't do, he was a great great fighter.

Inevitably we will discuss what he didn't do. I take issue with what he didn't do as well and also with some of the professional decisions he made that deprived me as a fan of some good fights, and also deprived him of the legacy he thinks he has.

[cardstars]

Originally Posted by kg0208

Mayweather is an ATG. Probably when things settle, he will move into people's top 60 fighters or so with ease. (10 years or so from now) This is a common phenomena as we saw how Whitaker took his rightful place in the top 20 years later and Jones Jr has taken his place in the top 30 or so years after his prime.

Mayweather's resume is good. It's not great, but it's underrated due to the backlash of his fans overrating it. He beat a lot of champs, he was beautiful in the ring, and he clearly beat every fighter he ever faced outside of Castillo I, though he was not thoroughly dominant in each fight.

All in all, taking into account what he DID do, and not what he didn't do, he was a great great fighter.

Inevitably we will discuss what he didn't do. I take issue with what he didn't do as well and also with some of the professional decisions he made that deprived me as a fan of some good fights, and also deprived him of the legacy he thinks he has.

I can agree with you. I actually think he may settle out even higher than top 60 atg eventually. I just don't understand the guy and what he does AT ALL so he gets my blood pumping a while back I just decided to go with "he's insane",,,,and leave it at that

[smoochp]

I'm a fan, but of course I'm dissapointed at the later part of his career. I think he will comeback once the WW picture is settled. Floyd had a great career at 130-135. But like I always said he basically pimped boxing and used it to make as much money as possible. Maybe he never really loved the sport in the first place, but it was forced upon him. Any Mayweather fan that is also a fan of boxing will want him face his his supposly hardest challenge. I just think it's his image and the way he acts is why most people hate him.

Do I think he can pull a mill against any other fighter but Hoya, Hatton, Margo, Cotto, and Molsey? No I don't, but the last three are the fighters we want thim to fight. Do I think he can sell out all his fights without a big name? No I don't. but I do think that Floyd is the best of this era. He also could have competed with the Jr. Welters in the 80's and 90's. But I don't think he could beat to many of the great WW of the 80's and 90's.

I don't really care if he cameback or not. But what is crazy is that I'm watching the Hoya fight now AND YESTERDAY i WATCHED THE HATTON FIGHT

[acb_]

Originally Posted by cardstars

This is a great idea for conversation IN THIS FORUM.

I was one of the people thinking that Mayweather wasn't retired. I was initially thinking that he was waiting for Cotto to build a name and then eventually a megafight within the next year or so. Now that Cotto lost to Margo I think he is officially retired though. I don't see Mayweather coming out of retirement to face Margo (and I think Margo will lose his titles before he makes a huge name for himself). No offense to Margo or his fans intended; just stating my opinion.

As for Mayweathers career I also feel it is really too bad that he didn't face the best (or anywhere near it) at welter. My personal opinion is that he is the type of guy that would be devasted from a loss on his record. Don't get me wrong; he's an amazing boxer, but I think he has other issues where he may mentally break down if he loses in the ring since boxing was his entire life and all he knew. He also says himself that he doesn't "want boxing to retire him", so he didn't want tough blood and guts battles with guys like Margo, Mosley, Cotto, etc. I give him all the props in the world for his great performance against Hatton, but in my opinion that was a much less dangerous fight then others out there at the time

I guess my problem with Mayweather is that when tracking his career I believe that you can see a pattern involved; the path of least resistance to get to the top. I will also admit that as a hardcore boxing fan I want to SEE a p4p #1 guy taking on all the challenges out there, not just a sparring match with the biggest name in the game who is past it himself.

I cannot argue that Mayweather is one of the greatest out there at 130-135 (actually I only favor Arguello over him at 130), but because of his antics once he reached the top and moved up I guess I just have a "we will never know attitude", which tto me translates to he didnt want the challenge. If his heart was truly not in it anymore then im glad he retired, but lets not label him as the best out there in a stacked welterweight division when he hasn't prroved anything.

I hope I at least somewhat got my feelings on him across. Its really mixed for me, but he mostly annoys me

Thanks for contributing Samurai.

Your point about him not wanting to lose because of his mental state could work both ways. A loss sometimes can be liberating, and I always suspected that if he were to aquire one, it may be even better for his career. Eventually, he would realize that all boxers lose, and I believe he would have become more competitive and taken greater challenges.

About Arguello, Id favor Floyd to beat him with his athleticism, movement, and speed at 130lbs.

[Sweet Pea]

I can't conclusively call him a top 50 ATG all things considered.

[cardstars]

Originally Posted by acb_

About Arguello, Id favor Floyd to beat him with his athleticism, movement, and speed at 130lbs.

I should say that in a 12 rounder it would be very close, but I personally think Arguello would pull out a 15 rounder easier. But anyways back on topic you made some other good points in your response. I just think Floyd is way too mental and might completely crash and burn if he lost. Not too sure who would beat him though, cause I favor him over Margo or DLH. Cotto I actually still favor,,,maybe 55/45, but that fight will never happen now.

Does anyone still think Floyd will come out of retirement? And if so, who do you think he would do it for?

[cardstars]

Originally Posted by smoochp

I don't really care if he cameback or not. But what is crazy is that I'm watching the Hoya fight now AND YESTERDAY i WATCHED THE HATTON FIGHT

The Hatton fight was very entertaining imo. I talked my friend into having a huge fight party at her place for it, and it had everyone on their feet and screaming at the tv. It was a good match

[smoochp]

Originally Posted by cardstars

The Hatton fight was very entertaining imo. I talked my friend into having a huge fight party at her place for it, and it had everyone on their feet and screaming at the tv. It was a good match

It was, but it still was a handpicked oppenent. I knew Floyd would whoop his ass to

[theunderdog]

i can't help but be awed by his talent. boxing looks so easy to him and maybe this was detrimental. he thought it was second nature for him so it did not seem that he was putting his entire effort in boxing. he would just push himself to the point where he knows that it will be enought to beat an opponent, i wish he would have lost once early on in his career so that we could have all seen how he could get back from it. i honestly think he would have been a better fighter if he lost once. it will make him want to win more.

let's face it, pbf may have gotten tired of winning and he was, at147, in a point where he thought that fighting cotto or margarito is very high risk and low reward so he just quit altogether. i feel honored to say that i've seen pbf at his best but then again i can't help but wonder what he could have been if he had the proper mindset

[jecxbox]

His ring presence was so incredibly natural to him, And it was only in a few of his fights where he looked a little on edge and uncomfortable in there, Mainly just Castillo. The 1/2 of his career was greatness, but he ended it weak and therefore I think its the second 1/2 of his career that hurts his h2h status when comparing him to other ATGs that pushed themselves to the max. If he would have taken Cotto/Margo/Williams to school...Then yeah I would have said oh Yeah maybe he does school Trinidad/DLH/Quartey in a prime to prime sense. But he didn't, and the fact that he showed some vulnerabilities and his neglect to push his career to the max just doesn't do it for me. As far as Floyd vs Tito/Oscar/Quartey....I don't favor him against any...He'd put up a great fight but I just don't think he'd win. He had amazing talent/still has amazing talent....But he didn't close his career, I mean the guy didn't have the best level of opposition around him AND HE STILL chose to take the path of least resistance. That kinda shit hurts his legacy. It's frusterating because I loved watching the guy fight but his decisions annoyed me. Tell me one true highly ranked ATG fighter that hand picked every opponent the way he did, so cautiously and carefully making sure that the best possible outcome would occur?...None!!!! He didn't represent the lb 4 lb #1 position very well IMO. He is really a super great and talented fighter though.

[teeto]

When rating, or simply trying to conclude how a good a fighter was, i always think it only fair to initially consider that fighter at his absolute best and peak. I always look at him first at 130, he was brilliant imo, he was never as consistent in terms of dominance and real quality wiins again after that in a single weight division imo. But i really do consider him one of the top class operators in terms of h2h, not that i'd favour him over many of history's elite however.

At 130 though, he seemed hungry, beat top contenders and was clearly the best of the pack, 2 he missed were Casamayor and Freitas, but he beat a lot of the rest. Chavez and Hernandez would get to be better names on his resume as time passed, Corales and Hernandez speak for themselves. Also, i rate Jose Luis Castillo as the best lightweight of the generation, i thought the first bout was a draw, a credit to Castillo's legacy, and the rematch Mayweather won, a credit to his.

[Pimp C]

I'm actually quite happy with his career. I wished he could have fought Hatton at 140 and had a chance at the linear title there. His resume at 147 isn't good but he did win a linear championship there. I just wish he could have fought Cotto before he retired. I think it will hurt his ATG ranking because of it. With that said too many people base his whole career off of what he did at 147. It would be like basing Duran's whole career at higher weights off of what he did against SRL, Hagler and Hearns and overlooking what he did at LW. But you can't deny his skills and the ease of which he beat 95% of his opponents, his dedication to staying in shape is also what makes him great.

[Raging B(_)LL]

I rate Mayweather highly head to head as a jr.lightweight and lightweight, but at jr.welter and especially welterweight I don`t rate him at all. His opposition was piss poor for the most part at both weights, and the only name fighters he faced were either far past their prime and/or just not good enough to have a chance at victory. Had he faced some quality opponents and defeated them at welter I`d change my tune, but as it stands I rank him strictly at the lower weights.

As for his career overall, I`d say the first half was good while the second half was a disapointment. It seemed to me he only cared about making as much money for the absolute minimum amount of risk for the last few years so that he could retire undefeated, and this attitude hurt boxing as a whole because with his newly found popularity he could have made some very compelling matchups happen while remaining in the driver`s seat during negotiations.

But he had no interest in doing so and instead retired when the pressure for him to face someone with a pulse became too great as a rematch between himself and DLH drew no interest from even the casual fans let alone us hardcore boxing fans. I think he will be back though as he seems to love the spotlight and attention he got while on top, and something tells me that he will miss it enough to make a comeback within the next year.