The Ring Magazine's top 10 p4p

[acb_]

Originally Posted by Sir Amsterdam

Too high IMO, about to be knocked off permanently at that by a well aged fighter.

Margarito is too high. Ridiculous how bruiser style fighters are moved up so easily.

Pavlik is going to knock out the aging boxer that put Calzaghe down. Bet on it.

[CJLightweight]

Originally Posted by Illmatic

If Guzman wins (which I expect), I will put him in top 10 as well. Guzman is one of the most underrated fighters in the sport.

he should be..undefeated 3 division champion after if he wins against campbell, i don't see a reason why people would not put him there

[DanePugilist]

I don't really agree with it, but not much have been stirred yet. I expect alot of changes over the next year.

1. Pacman
2. Calzaghe
3. Vasquez
4. Mijares
5. Cotto
6. JMM
7. Margarito
8. Klitschko(yes)
9. Dawson
10. Kessler.

Bubblers Haye, Pavlik, Donaire, R. Marquez, Chris John, Guzman, all of which could take Kesslers spot - I don't mind taking a much expected bashing for putting him there(along with Klitschko).

[kg0208]

Originally Posted by DanePugilist

I don't really agree with it, but not much have been stirred yet. I expect alot of changes over the next year.

1. Pacman
2. Calzaghe
3. Vasquez
4. Mijares
5. Cotto
6. JMM
7. Margarito
8. Klitschko(yes)
9. Dawson
10. Kessler.

Bubblers Haye, Pavlik, Donaire, R. Marquez, Chris John, Guzman, all of which could take Kesslers spot - I don't mind taking a much expected bashing for putting him there(along with Klitschko).

I can see the argument for Klitscho. Kessler? I think he is on the bubble and David Haye gets in, or Pavlik. Guzman has to beat someone truly noteworthy.

[DanePugilist]

Originally Posted by kg0208

I can see the argument for Klitscho. Kessler? I think he is on the bubble and David Haye gets in, or Pavlik. Guzman has to beat someone truly noteworthy.

Yeah, I agree with Haye. He could easily get in. However, Kessler has only lost to the no. 2 p4p, and has mauled anyone else - some of which are better than Taylor. And since its not totally utopic, I like to have a dane there - he is skilled enough too, imho.

[Illmatic]

Originally Posted by DanePugilist

I don't really agree with it, but not much have been stirred yet. I expect alot of changes over the next year.

1. Pacman
2. Calzaghe
3. Vasquez
4. Mijares
5. Cotto
6. JMM
7. Margarito
8. Klitschko(yes)
9. Dawson
10. Kessler.

Bubblers Haye, Pavlik, Donaire, R. Marquez, Chris John, Guzman, all of which could take Kesslers spot - I don't mind taking a much expected bashing for putting him there(along with Klitschko).

Margo over Cotto? And Klitschko cannot be top 10, its very difficult for a heavyweight to be POUND for POUND one of the best. Do you really think that if Wlad was the same size as even Kessler, Dawson, Rafa, Guzman that he would even be competitive, much less win?

[DanePugilist]

Originally Posted by Illmatic

Margo over Cotto? And Klitschko cannot be top 10, its very difficult for a heavyweight to be POUND for POUND one of the best. Do you really think that if Wlad was the same size as even Kessler, Dawson, Rafa, Guzman that he would even be competitive, much less win?

Yeah, well. Cotto has done slightly more than Margo.

Concerning Klitschko - well - it always hard to say with a heavyweight. But if arguments can be made for Haye, why not Klitschko? Imagine him being shrunk to ie 147, and he would still be pretty leathal. And he has good skills as well, and is very mobile for a big heavy. Furthermore I don't think it is fair that HWs never get a spot.

[Illmatic]

Originally Posted by DanePugilist

Yeah, well. Cotto has done slightly more than Margo.

Concerning Klitschko - well - it always hard to say with a heavyweight. But if arguments can be made for Haye, why not Klitschko? Imagine him being shrunk to ie 147, and he would still be pretty leathal. And he has good skills as well, and is very mobile for a big heavy. Furthermore I don't think it is fair that HWs never get a spot.

They do, but according to the definition of pound for pound its damn near impossible for one of klits size to make the list. Smaller ones like Tyson, Holyfield were on the lists however.

[Igor]

Originally Posted by kg0208

I can see the argument for Klitscho. Kessler? I think he is on the bubble and David Haye gets in, or Pavlik. Guzman has to beat someone truly noteworthy.

Why do you think Pavlik and Haye deserve to be in the top 10, but not Guzman? Guzman didn't just beat, he dominated the same level opponents (even better IMO). Isn't a fairly easy win against Soto better than two tough, close fights against Taylor? Also, Barrios (who Guzman dominated but some idiot judge had it for Barrios so people think it was a very close fight) is a much better fighter than Miranda. Barrios and Soto are clearly better, more difficult fighters than anybody Haye has ever faced. He barely survived against a fading, very limited champion in Mormeck and his only accomplishment other than that is blowing out Enzo Mac, who is chinny as hell and a B- level fighter at best anyways.

I can't see how so many people can say that fighters like Pavlik and Haye deserve to be in the top 10, but Guzman doesn't because "he has to beat somebody noteworthy". He beat some fighters noteworthy enough and he beat them in very noteworthy fashion. Plus, he's a two division champion who clearly has a lot of H2H ability to say the least.

Ring Magazine only looks at whether a fighter won or not and whether it was against another name fighter or not, they don't look at how the fighter won or how good their opponent really was. Oh well, I hate these lists anyways.. was just wondering about your thoughts.

[Sir Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by Igor

Why do you think Pavlik and Haye deserve to be in the top 10, but not Guzman? Guzman didn't just beat, he dominated the same level opponents (even better IMO). Isn't a fairly easy win against Soto better than two tough, close fights against Taylor? Also, Barrios (who Guzman dominated but some idiot judge had it for Barrios so people think it was a very close fight) is a much better fighter than Miranda. Barrios and Soto are clearly better, more difficult fighters than anybody Haye has ever faced. He barely survived against a fading, very limited champion in Mormeck and his only accomplishment other than that is blowing out Enzo Mac, who is chinny as hell and a B- level fighter at best anyways.

I can't see how so many people can say that fighters like Pavlik and Haye deserve to be in the top 10, but Guzman doesn't because "he has to beat somebody noteworthy". He beat some fighters noteworthy enough and he beat them in very noteworthy fashion. Plus, he's a two division champion who clearly has a lot of H2H ability to say the least.

Ring Magazine only looks at whether a fighter won or not and whether it was against another name fighter or not, they don't look at how the fighter won or how good their opponent really was. Oh well, I hate these lists anyways.. was just wondering about your thoughts.

Exactly, they don't look at how 'good' they are and just go off of status.

Taylor for example, big status, but arguably lost at least 4 of his last six.