thanks 4 the invite 2 MBF, acb

[brooklyn1550]

Originally Posted by john garfield

Like you, I've only seen Loi on TV and clips, and heard trainers and fighters talk about him in the gym.

I don't really get a visceral sense of a fighter from TV, and I hate to comment off second-hand information.

It's truly a shame how little footage there is of Loi. He's really become a forgotten great. Too many people haven't heard of him or completely overlook him.

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by brooklyn1550

It's truly a shame how little footage there is of Loi. He's really become a forgotten great. Too many people haven't heard of him or completely overlook him.

Off what I saw against Carlos Ortiz, Loi looked like a short, very compact, short-armed, scrappy, busy fighter, with spring in his legs, who fought from bell to bell. Had no eraser, but made sure he got the last punch of every exchange.

[cardstars]

Hey John, glad to see you made it to this site. Did you ever get your hands on the latest SRR book I mentioned a little while back? I believe it was called Peerless

[Peter5]

Good to have you here JG

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by cardstars

Hey John, glad to see you made it to this site. Did you ever get your hands on the latest SRR book I mentioned a little while back? I believe it was called Peerless

Hi, c

Must be slippin'. Haven't gotten to "Peerless" yet...and it's about SRR! Was a time I'da ripped it from the author's hand before it was published.

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by Peter5

Good to have you here JG

Thanks, P5. What are your thoughts about Pac-DLH?

[teeto]

John Garfield, you may or may not have noticed me posting on ESB's classis over the past year, but i have noticed your stuff. Just didn't wanna address you without having a subject to debate on. Anyway, about time i got to know you a bit more (forum-style!), everyone's sad this to you already, but welcome!

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by teeto

John Garfield, you may or may not have noticed me posting on ESB's classis over the past year, but i have noticed your stuff. Just didn't wanna address you without having a subject to debate on. Anyway, about time i got to know you a bit more (forum-style!), everyone's sad this to you already, but welcome!

Seen your posts in the ESB classic section as well, t. Rarely debate. Posters just dig in, and nothing's resolved. Will stick to observations and behind-the-scenes stuff.

[teeto]

Originally Posted by john garfield

Seen your posts in the ESB classic section as well, t. Rarely debate. Posters just dig in, and nothing's resolved. Will stick to observations and behind-the-scenes stuff.

I understand John, looking forward to your stroies.

[Sir Amsterdam]

Hi John, how do you think Pep and Whitaker compare, assuming you've seen Pep at his best?

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by Sir Amsterdam

Hi John, how do you think Pep and Whitaker compare, assuming you've seen Pep at his best?

I won't speculate about a winner, SA. I'll just compare styles:

At his peak, Willie was Fred Astaire; his feet didn't touch the ground -- light as a feather (no pun intended) Unerring punches comin' from all angles. A textbook magician. (the irony was: he spent more time in ginmills than he did at the gym)

Whitaker, though decades later, was an ol' school gumby. Whatta master! Close enough to be hit, (arrogantly daring an opponent) but bending and twisting in one spot, makin' him miss, makin' him pay. Never spendin' more energy than he had to.

[Sir Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by john garfield

I won't speculate about a winner, SA. I'll just compare styles:

At his peak, Willie was Fred Astaire; his feet didn't touch the ground -- light as a feather (no pun intended) Unerring punches comin' from all angles. A textbook magician. (the irony was: he spent more time in ginmills than he did at the gym)

Whitaker, though decades later, was an ol' school gumby. Whatta master! Close enough to be hit, (arrogantly daring an opponent) but bending and twisting in one spot, makin' him miss, makin' him pay. Never spendin' more energy than he had to.

Intersting that Pep was a heavy drinker, yet a dominant force in his time. If you'd describe Whitaker as an 'old school gumby', what other fighters would you say fits into that mold from the old school era's?

Very interested in these types of fighters.

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by Sir Amsterdam

Intersting that Pep was a heavy drinker, yet a dominant force in his time. If you'd describe Whitaker as an 'old school gumby', what other fighters would you say fits into that mold from the old school era's?

Very interested in these types of fighters.

Of the current crop, SA, only James Toney fits that mold.

[Sir Amsterdam]

All right and which type of style in your observations have made for the better general defensive fighters - the fast on their feet counter punchers who always utilise range, or the 'old school gumby' type of guys who draw them in and make them hit air with a vast array of moves?

And from the 1940s-1970s, who would you say most compares to the two modern 'old school gumby' fighters in Whitaker or Toney the most? I've heard Charles was sort of this manner, but in film didn't see it, am I looking at the wrong tape or was I informed incorrectly about E. Charles?

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by Sir Amsterdam

All right and which type of style in your observations have made for the better general defensive fighters - the fast on their feet counter punchers who always utilise range, or the 'old school gumby' type of guys who draw them in and make them hit air with a vast array of moves?

And from the 1940s-1970s, who would you say most compares to the two modern 'old school gumby' fighters in Whitaker or Toney the most? I've heard Charles was sort of this manner, but in film didn't see it, am I looking at the wrong tape or was I informed incorrectly about E. Charles?

Your question makes me nuts, SA. There’s an ol’ song: “When I’m not near the girl I love, I love the girl I’m near”, which pretty much sums-up my feelings about both styles, plied by masters.

Charles and Donald Curry, at their best, were more exquisite standup boxer/ punchers. Pep was another animal: A textbook boxer-Nijinsky-magician-gnat and Gatling gun rolled into a lawn-jockey-sized standup comic. His bouts weren’t fights; they were performance art. “OOHS!” and “AAHS!” from the crowd, like they were sampling a gourmet meal. Nicolina Locche was another silken toreador – peerless!

Archie Moore, with his back to the ropes, could lead a master class in cunning. (What he forgot, others haven’t learned)

“Money” Mayweather’s a hybrid: Radar and reflexes. Boorish as he is, gotta give the troll his due… Likewise for early Camacho, Sr.