thanks 4 the invite 2 MBF, acb

[Sir Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by john garfield

Your question makes me nuts, SA. There’s an ol’ song: “When I’m not near the girl I love, I love the girl I’m near”, which pretty much sums-up my feelings about both styles, plied by masters.

Charles and Donald Curry, at their best, were more exquisite standup boxer/ punchers. Pep was another animal: A textbook boxer-Nijinsky-magician-gnat and Gatling gun rolled into a lawn-jockey-sized standup comic. His bouts weren’t fights; they were performance art. “OOHS!” and “AAHS!” from the crowd, like they were sampling a gourmet meal. Nicolina Locche was another silken toreador – peerless!

Archie Moore, with his back to the ropes, could lead a master class in cunning. (What he forgot, others haven’t learned)

“Money” Mayweather’s a hybrid: Radar and reflexes. Boorish as he is, gotta give the troll his due… Likewise for early Camacho, Sr.

That's one of the best explanations I've ever heard.

What would you say is the best performance of Archie Moore on film, so that I could check it out?

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by Sir Amsterdam

That's one of the best explanations I've ever heard.

What would you say is the best performance of Archie Moore on film, so that I could check it out?

So many, SA, not sure where to start, or what's out there on film. Pretty sure the Marciano, Patterson and Ali bouts exist. All losses, sadly, when Archie was well past his prime -- not the best showcase for his ring savvy.

There must be a tape of his first bout with Yvonne Durelle. Race out now and get it -- well worth it -- the greatest comeback in boxing history, and demonstrates the grit that stamps him an ATG.

Got to see him live against BoBo Olson, Harold Johnson, Bob Baker, Joey Maxim and Jimmy Bivins.

They broke the mold with Archie Moore.

[smoochp]

Originally Posted by john garfield

So many, SA, not sure where to start, or what's out there on film. Pretty sure the Marciano, Patterson and Ali bouts exist. All losses, sadly, when Archie was well past his prime -- not the best showcase for his ring savvy.

There must be a tape of his first bout with Yvonne Durelle. Race out now and get it -- well worth it -- the greatest comeback in boxing history, and demonstrates the grit that stamps him an ATG.

Got to see him live against BoBo Olson, Harold Johnson, Bob Baker, Joey Maxim and Jimmy Bivins.

They broke the mold with Archie Moore.

Those bouts exist and I'm proud to say that this young 25 year old man has them on DVD

[Sir Amsterdam]

A lot of veteran fans who have been around boxing for a long time tend to rate Tyson in low light, how do you view Tyson John at his physical peak? If you made a top 10 ATG HW list on accomplishment and overall impressiveness via performance, where would Tyson rate there, if he doesn't rank in the top 10, then where outside of it and why?

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by Sir Amsterdam

A lot of veteran fans who have been around boxing for a long time tend to rate Tyson in low light, how do you view Tyson John at his physical peak? If you made a top 10 ATG HW list on accomplishment and overall impressiveness via performance, where would Tyson rate there, if he doesn't rank in the top 10, then where outside of it and why?

Alotta fans are the fair-weather variety, SA. The “What’ve ya done lately?” ones. It isn’t about wins or losses, or articles or stats, that determines how I rate a fighter; it’s about watching him train and fight live over a period of years.

ATG’s are like icebergs, nine-tenths below the surface.

Mike Tyson, it’s no surprise, is a fearsome, murderous presence and puncher, and he’d have been that since men first toed the mark. But the fragility of his psyche keeps him from being the complete package.

[Sir Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by john garfield

Alotta fans are the fair-weather variety, SA. The “What’ve ya done lately?” ones. It isn’t about wins or losses, or articles or stats, that determines how I rate a fighter; it’s about watching him train and fight live over a period of years.

ATG’s are like icebergs, nine-tenths below the surface.

Mike Tyson, it’s no surprise, is a fearsome, murderous presence and puncher, and he’d have been that since men first toed the mark. But the fragility of his psyche keeps him from being the complete package.

Interesting take on it. If you've seen Joe Calzaghe, what do you think of him? Roy Jones Jr. as well?

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by Sir Amsterdam

Interesting take on it. If you've seen Joe Calzaghe, what do you think of him? Roy Jones Jr. as well?

Have some things to attend to. Will get back to you on this.

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by Sir Amsterdam

Interesting take on it. If you've seen Joe Calzaghe, what do you think of him? Roy Jones Jr. as well?

Sorry it’s taken so long to get back to you, SA.

There’s a word that captures Calzaghe and RJJ perfectly: schadenfreud (when the fans build-up a fighter and then delight in tearing him down)

Lemme talk Jones first because I’ve seen him train and fight live. At his best, Roy was breathtaking: unearthly reflexes, blinding hand and foot speed, a ring general par excellence, a flare for the dramatic – an original. The highest compliment anyone could be paid, boxer or otherwise.

The haters would’ve had far less to carp about had he packed-it-in after his one-sided dissection of John Ruiz.

That Roy got flattened twice, speaks in the third-person, and is gallingly arrogant, (SRR, my boyhood hero, was no prince among men) doesn’t lessen him in my eyes one iota. With the benefit of time, he’ll be remembered as an ATG.

The same guys heaping abuse on him now will be regaling their kids, with pride, how they got to see him fight.

With Calzaghe, have to rely on what I’ve seen on TV over the years – which I hate to do, but here’s my two cents: Joe’s a special fighter, not just because of his undefeated slate, ability to adapt and smothering combinations, but his grit, his refusal to be beaten. He’s not an original, but he’s damn damn good. The U.K. can well be proud of him as more than a great boxer, but a great fighting man.

[Sir Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by john garfield

Sorry it’s taken so long to get back to you, SA.

There’s a word that captures Calzaghe and RJJ perfectly: schadenfreud (when the fans build-up a fighter and then delight in tearing him down)

Lemme talk Jones first because I’ve seen him train and fight live. At his best, Roy was breathtaking: unearthly reflexes, blinding hand and foot speed, a ring general par excellence, a flare for the dramatic – an original. The highest compliment anyone could be paid, boxer or otherwise.

The haters would’ve had far less to carp about had he packed-it-in after his one-sided dissection of John Ruiz.

That Roy got flattened twice, speaks in the third-person, and is gallingly arrogant, (SRR, my boyhood hero, was no prince among men) doesn’t lessen him in my eyes one iota. With the benefit of time, he’ll be remembered as an ATG.

The same guys heaping abuse on him now will be regaling their kids, with pride, how they got to see him fight.

With Calzaghe, have to rely on what I’ve seen on TV over the years – which I hate to do, but here’s my two cents: Joe’s a special fighter, not just because of his undefeated slate, ability to adapt and smothering combinations, but his grit, his refusal to be beaten. He’s not an original, but he’s damn damn good. The U.K. can well be proud of him as more than a great boxer, but a great fighting man.

This is a great assessment, I agree with all of this 100%. What bouts did you get to see of Calzaghe and do you regularly follow modern boxing? If you do, what active fighter is your favourite to watch?

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by Sir Amsterdam

This is a great assessment, I agree with all of this 100%. What bouts did you get to see of Calzaghe and do you regularly follow modern boxing? If you do, what active fighter is your favourite to watch?

I've seen more of Joe C than I realized, SA, but only on TV (which is light years difference from ringside) The opponents were: Hopkins, Kessler, Biko, Lacy, Veit, Manfredo, Brewer, Woodhall, Sheika, and Starie.

Don't get around to as many gyms and fights as I used to, just the big cards in L.A and Vegas. Probably will go to Pac-DLH.

Have to say Pac's my favorite now. Have gotten to know him and his team since he started training at the Wild Card gym in LA.

Aside from the electricity he generates in the ring, he's such an engaging guy. When he trains, every Filippino for miles flocks to see him. And even training like a demon,(He'd make coffee nervous) he always manages a moment with all of them -- a kind word, an autograph, a picture, whatever.

[smoochp]

Prime 4 Prime who would win a fight between Pyror and Whitaker in your honest opinion Mr. Garfiled

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by smoochp

Prime 4 Prime who would win a fight between Pyror and Whitaker in your honest opinion Mr. Garfiled

I never get into mythical matchups on the web, s; it's a no-win situation. If they were literally gonna throw-down, I'd be happy to put my two cents in, and then we'd wait an see.

What I will say is: It's an inspired match-up, one I'd be first on line to buy a ticket for.

[Sir Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by john garfield

I never get into mythical matchups on the web, s; it's a no-win situation. If they were literally gonna throw-down, I'd be happy to put my two cents in, and then we'd wait an see.

What I will say is: It's an inspired match-up, one I'd be first on line to buy a ticket for.

Too bad you don't get into mythical match ups, I'd have a ton of them for you.

Have you watched Cristian Mijares yet JG? If so, what do you think of him?

And as for a good up coming match, Joan Guzman vs. Nate Campbell, how do you see it playing out?

[john garfield]

Originally Posted by Sir Amsterdam

Too bad you don't get into mythical match ups, I'd have a ton of them for you.

Have you watched Cristian Mijares yet JG? If so, what do you think of him?

And as for a good up coming match, Joan Guzman vs. Nate Campbell, how do you see it playing out?

Embarrassed to say, SA, think I've only seen Mijares once on TV. If he's the guy I'm thinkin' of, he's a silky-smooth boxer, with terrific balance and a paintbrush for a jab.

Guzman-Campbell's a helluva match-up. Guzman's got world's of talent, blazing handspeed and more than a little hotdog in him.

Nate's no shrinking violet either, and as ol' school as they get -- knows every trick in the book and will return fire with fire. Butt him and you're apt to wind up a soprano.

Nate's a BAD MAN! The only guy in the gym that stands up to James Toney talkin' smack.

Don't know what the odds are, but this is a pick'em fight for me. Neither guy will back down and there'll be exchanges that will have fans on their feet.

Guzman has the faster hands, but Nate's are heavier.

Split decision for Nate that should have fans clammoring for a re-match.

[Sir Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by john garfield

Embarrassed to say, SA, think I've only seen Mijares once on TV. If he's the guy I'm thinkin' of, he's a silky-smooth boxer, with terrific balance and a paintbrush for a jab.

Guzman-Campbell's a helluva match-up. Guzman's got world's of talent, blazing handspeed and more than a little hotdog in him.

Nate's no shrinking violet either, and as ol' school as they get -- knows every trick in the book and will return fire with fire. Butt him and you're apt to wind up a soprano.

Nate's a BAD MAN! The only guy in the gym that stands up to James Toney talkin' smack.

Don't know what the odds are, but this is a pick'em fight for me. Neither guy will back down and there'll be exchanges that will have fans on their feet.

Guzman has the faster hands, but Nate's are heavier.

Split decision for Nate that should have fans clammoring for a re-match.

Yes, you've got the right Mijares. I'd reccomend checking more of him in the future, this kid's destined for greatness and is about to become the Undisputed champ at Superfly, all of his matches of late have been very dominant victories against WC opposition.

A lot of people are going for Nate. I really like Nate also, he's really an awesome fighter and very old school as you say, but Guzman is a personal favourite. Two guys I really like in a match, two guys that are heavily avoided, it's a great fight and I can't wait.

Gunning for a Guzman close decision myself.

I can get a bunch of Mijares links and get them to you if you like watching bouts on the PC.