If RJJ's career had started in 1980

[kg0208]

How would he have fared? Would he have won titles in all the weight classes he did? How would he have done against the group of MW's, SMW's and LHW's who fought in that time frame?

[acb_]

Originally Posted by kg0208

How would he have fared? Would he have won titles in all the weight classes he did? How would he have done against the group of MW's, SMW's and LHW's who fought in that time frame?

Kg can you make a list off the top of your head of who he would have faced, or some of the top guys in these divisions at the time.. say early 80's.

[kg0208]

Jones started his career at LMW. But only briefly. He wouldn't have faced anyone of note. At MW however, to get to Hagler, or even a shot at him, he would have had to go through a few good fighters. Jones got a title shot in 1993, so by 1985 or so (five years into his career), Mugabi, Kinchin, and Herol Graham would have been fights he would have had to take in that climate to get to Hagler. McCallum would have been someone he could have fought as well (and someone with a legit shot at beating him). How long does he stay here? Well, there are more big name fights in this era at MW than there was at MW when he won the title. Staying here gets him fights with Hearns, Leonard, Nunn, and guys coming up like Collins and Benn. Competition was stiffer to say the least. Of course, that is in hindsight.

Moving up to SMW would have put him in the ring with Park, who he would have obliterated IMO, but still....

LHW in the early 90's would have pitted him against Hill and Maske, Moorer, and guys like Jeff Harding, Booker T, and Charles Williams.

[DanePugilist]

At MW I think he would have had the most trouble. I don't really know how he would fare against a toughy such as Hagler, or a speedster in Leonard. McCallum would have been a very tough fight, but I think he would pull it off. Not trying to degrade anything that RJJ has done, but I think those would be his toughest fights by far. I don't think he would have problems with Hearns.

[acb_]

Originally Posted by kg0208

Jones started his career at LMW. But only briefly. He wouldn't have faced anyone of note. At MW however, to get to Hagler, or even a shot at him, he would have had to go through a few good fighters. Jones got a title shot in 1993, so by 1985 or so (five years into his career), Mugabi, Kinchin, and Herol Graham would have been fights he would have had to take in that climate to get to Hagler. McCallum would have been someone he could have fought as well (and someone with a legit shot at beating him). How long does he stay here? Well, there are more big name fights in this era at MW than there was at MW when he won the title. Staying here gets him fights with Hearns, Leonard, Nunn, and guys coming up like Collins and Benn. Competition was stiffer to say the least. Of course, that is in hindsight.

Moving up to SMW would have put him in the ring with Park, who he would have obliterated IMO, but still....

LHW in the early 90's would have pitted him against Hill and Maske, Moorer, and guys like Jeff Harding, Booker T, and Charles Williams.

Thanks.

160lbs:
Hagler: Always favored him over Hagler. Size, speed, ability to dictate range and raw athleticism would compensate for his being green. I know some with disagree here.

Mugabi and McCallum: This would be very interesting, still have to go with Roy. Just watched Roy easily outbox Toney at 168lbs the other day, forgot how good he was.

I don't see him staying long enough to see the other guys you mentioned because of the size. Leonard was too small for this Jones. Hearns would be very interesting, maybe a 50-50 scrap.

168lbs:
Never seen Park.

175lbs:
The name that jumps out at me here is Moore. Tall southpaw, skilled at this weight. I'd take him over Jones 8 out of 10 times here.

[acb_]

Originally Posted by DanePugilist

At MW I think he would have had the most trouble. I don't really know how he would fare against a toughy such as Hagler, or a speedster in Leonard. McCallum would have been a very tough fight, but I think he would pull it off. Not trying to degrade anything that RJJ has done, but I think those would be his toughest fights by far. I don't think he would have problems with Hearns.

This is where we would have to disagree. Roy was too skilled, to reflexive in conjunction with being so strong, athletic, and big at this weight.

Green? Yes. But really take a look at him at this weight. The raw athletic ability is striking. Ray wasn't going to beat Roy at this weight, good as he was he would be out gunned here IMO.

[kg0208]

Originally Posted by acb_

Thanks.

160lbs:
Hagler: Always favored him over Hagler. Size, speed, ability to dictate range and raw athleticism would compensate for his being green. I know some with disagree here.

Mugabi and McCallum: This would be very interesting, still have to go with Roy. Just watched Roy easily outbox Toney at 168lbs the other day, forgot how good he was.

I don't see him staying long enough to see the other guys you mentioned because of the size. Leonard was too small for this Jones. Hearns would be very interesting, maybe a 50-50 scrap.

168lbs:
Never seen Park.

175lbs:
The name that jumps out at me here is Moore. Tall southpaw, skilled at this weight. I'd take him over Jones 8 out of 10 times here.

I think McCallum would give Jones trouble. Great chin, very strong, good skills and great timing. I actually favor Hagler over Jones to most people's dismay. I see him cutting off the ring and getting to Jones body and over time wearing him down enough to pull out the late rounds and win a decision.

I have seen Park a couple of times. Jones stops him. Bad...

I think a prime Hill gets stopped by Jones, but later and after a good showing.

[acb_]

Originally Posted by kg0208

I think McCallum would give Jones trouble. Great chin, very strong, good skills and great timing. I actually favor Hagler over Jones to most people's dismay. I see him cutting off the ring and getting to Jones body and over time wearing him down enough to pull out the late rounds and win a decision.

I have seen Park a couple of times. Jones stops him. Bad...

I think a prime Hill gets stopped by Jones, but later and after a good showing.

We all know what Hagler had at this weight, but did he ever face someone like Jones? I'd agree that Hagler is great at finding his man and cutting off the ring, but Jones counters that with his ability to maintain a distance that is comfortable for him. I see him doing just that, and using his own power and ability to turn the corner to place himself out of Hagler's way enough to beat him. In the event that Hagler pushed him against the ropes, the strength of Jones would keep him from being there for too long.

How do you see him against Moore?

[Illmatic]

I only really see McCallum and Moore giving him trouble. Leonard- too small, Hagler I believe wouldn't be able to keep up with RJ's foot and hand speed.

McCallum---one of the most underrated fighters ever

[kg0208]

Originally Posted by acb_

We all know what Hagler had at this weight, but did he ever face someone like Jones? I'd agree that Hagler is great at finding his man and cutting off the ring, but Jones counters that with his ability to maintain a distance that is comfortable for him. I see him doing just that, and using his own power and ability to turn the corner to place himself out of Hagler's way enough to beat him. In the event that Hagler pushed him against the ropes, the strength of Jones would keep him from being there for too long.

How do you see him against Moore?

I used to favor Moorer over Jones at LHW. But it's hard to tell when you take a deep look. He never faced anyone in the league below Jones, let alone Jones league. Jones could have stayed away from him and outboxed him. As long as he didn't get in a firefight.

[Illmatic]

Originally Posted by kg0208

I used to favor Moorer over Jones at LHW. But it's hard to tell when you take a deep look. He never faced anyone in the league below Jones, let alone Jones league. Jones could have stayed away from him and outboxed him. As long as he didn't get in a firefight.

Very true...hard to say how good Moore was at that weight.

[Sweet Pea]

MooreR was overrated at LHW in so many ways, I don't class him with Jones at all.

[acb_]

I'm a liitle thrown by all of you guys picking Jones over Moorer, personally I don't see it.

Agreed that Moorer fought shitty competition at 175lbs, but he did win 22 straight fights there by KO. He was a southpaw, with more power than Jones at that weight, with a 3 inch height advantage at 6'2, and focused unlike later in his career. This isn't any Richard Hall. I think he is the type of southpaw that troubles Jones.

Do you guys think Jones just out boxes him easily?

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by acb_

I'm a liitle thrown by all of you guys picking Jones over Moorer, personally I don't see it.

Agreed that Moorer fought shitty competition at 175lbs, but he did win 22 straight fights there by KO. He was a southpaw, with more power than Jones at that weight, with a 3 inch height advantage at 6'2, and focused unlike later in his career. This isn't any Richard Hall. I think he is the type of southpaw that troubles Jones.

Do you guys think Jones just out boxes him easily?

Stylistically it wouldn't be easy, but Jones was a better fighter at LHW IMO. Style-wise a guy like Jones would probably have more difficulty with Moorer than most other great LHW's(though I wouldn't classify Jones as a great LHW, at least not on accomplishments) but he'd still be too quick, too slick, and too skilled for him. Watch Moorer vs a guy like Leslie Stewart, a second tier slickster who was able to trouble him throughout much of the fight before getting taken out.

That's really the only comparison I can make to any kind of similarity between Moorer's opposition and Jones, but I just think Moorer is very overrated at LHW. It's become kind of an "in" thing to say he was one of the best H2H ever there, but I don't think that's the case at all, and honestly I don't see how anyone who's seen substantial footage of him there can claim that. Better fighter at HW for sure if you ask me.