My top ten PR fighters of all time...

[Illmatic]

1. Carlos Ortiz
2. Wilfred Benitez
3. Felix Trinidad
4. Wilfred Gomez
5. Chegui Torres
6. Hector Camacho
7. Wilfred Vazquez
8. Carlos De Leon
9. Esteban DeJesus
10.Ivan Calderon

Honorable Mentions: Edwin Rosario, Juan LaPorte, Miguel Cotto, John Ruiz, Daniel Santos, Sixto Escobar.

[Sweet Pea]

Carlos De Leon above Dejesus? Calderon above both La Porte and Rosario?

[Illmatic]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Carlos De Leon above Dejesus? Calderon above both La Porte and Rosario?

De Leon IMO had a more complete career despite DeJesus' spectacular win over Duran.

And Calderon has had a very consistent career, which is much more than I can say for LaPorte and Rosario.

[Sir Amsterdam]

Cotto's done a lot more than Calderon also, a lot more.

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by Illmatic

De Leon IMO had a more complete career despite DeJesus' spectacular win over Duran.

Why? Dejesus beat the better fighters and was the more skilled fighter overall.

And Calderon has had a very consistent career, which is much more than I can say for LaPorte and Rosario.

I doubt he'd have been half as successful as either of them fighting their opposition. His opposition has been piss poor throughout his career.

[Sir Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by Sweet Pea

Why? Dejesus beat the better fighters and was the more skilled fighter overall.

I doubt he'd have been half as successful as either of them fighting their opposition. His opposition has been piss poor throughout his career.

Exactly, Cazares is the best he's faced, a B- fighter at best. Cazares is about as good as Mger Mkrtchian, a guy Calzaghe destroyed in 7.

[Illmatic]

Originally Posted by Sir Amsterdam

Exactly, Cazares is the best he's faced, a B- fighter at best. Cazares is about as good as Mger Mkrtchian, a guy Calzaghe destroyed in 7.

I disagree. The vast majority of people thought Cazares would knock him out, only when Calderon made him look like an amatuer did he become dismissed as an unskilled nobody.

[Illmatic]

Originally Posted by Sir Amsterdam

Cotto's done a lot more than Calderon also, a lot more.

Calderon is a champion...Cotto has yet to accomplish that.

[Sir Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by Illmatic

Calderon is a champion...Cotto has yet to accomplish that.

Look at who they beat, then get back to me.

I'll take a titlist who's defeated consistent top fighters and an elite fighter, over a 'champ' that's defeated only mediocre fighters. Things need to be rated accordingly, Calderon gets extra points where others wouldn't for some reason.

[Illmatic]

Originally Posted by Sir Amsterdam

Look at who they beat, then get back to me.

I'll take a titlist who's defeated consistent top fighters and an elite fighter, over a 'champ' that's defeated only mediocre fighters. Things need to be rated accordingly, Calderon gets extra points where others wouldn't for some reason.

Thing is, a welterweight will always get more credit b/c their division gets so much more attention. Also, in a P4p sense, I rate Caldy higher since he's such a naturally small fighter. Cotto is a natural welter, Caldy is a natural 100 lber.

[Sweet Pea]

Originally Posted by Illmatic

Thing is, a welterweight will always get more credit b/c their division gets so much more attention. Also, in a P4p sense, I rate Caldy higher since he's such a naturally small fighter. Cotto is a natural welter, Caldy is a natural 100 lber.

Why does the fact that he's smaller get him a higher rating P4P? He's not as good a fighter, that should be the deciding factor.

And regarding Calderon's opposition, yes the lower weights do get less recognition, but whenever a top fighter does emerge they get the attention they deserve more often than not, as you've seen with guys like Lopez, Calderon, Alvarez, Gonzalez, Carbajal, etc. Guys like Chang, Zapata, and Gushiken were better than all of them aside from Lopez though, IMO. Most of the time, though they do get less recognition, it's for a reason. The very lowest weights are normally just very stale in terms of opposition.

Lopez, for example, fought better opposition than Calderon, but still pretty poor in the grand scheme of things. It doesn't take a genius to see why he was so much higher rated though. Just a much better overall fighter.

[Sir Amsterdam]

Originally Posted by Illmatic

I disagree. The vast majority of people thought Cazares would knock him out, only when Calderon made him look like an amatuer did he become dismissed as an unskilled nobody.

He always looks like that though. Only have to view him for what he is to see that.